TSP7 – Entering the Fifth Mansion – St. Teresa of Avila, Spiritual Warfare, and the Progress of the Soul with Dan Burke – Discerning Hearts Podcasts


Episode 7 – Entering the Fifth Mansion – St. Teresa, Spiritual Warfare, and the Progress of the Soul with Dan Burke

Dan Burke and Kris McGregor discuss spiritual progress and the challenges faced in St. Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle, particularly through the fifth mansion and the spiritual journey as one of growth toward union with God; this path is neither solitary nor self-sufficient. They discuss the necessity of spiritual guidance and community, even for hermits, to maintain spiritual health and avoid isolation’s pitfalls.

There’s also critical virtues of humility and self-awareness. These act as shields against the enemy, especially at higher levels of spiritual development, where temptation becomes subtler and more insidious. Burke highlights the importance of a spiritual director who genuinely listens, able to discern God’s unique work in each soul, rather than adhering strictly to systematic approaches. He warns against overly programmatic spiritual direction, suggesting that the Holy Spirit should be the primary guide, with spiritual directors acting as humble servants to aid the soul’s unique journey.

We can have experiences of spiritual desolation and consolation, particularly the disorientation that can come with transitioning between the purgative and illuminative stages. Through these transitions, having a spiritual director to offer support and interpret the soul’s experiences is invaluable. Burke and McGregor conclude by stressing the importance of daily practices, such as examination of conscience, which keep one grounded and attuned to God’s direction, helping to avoid the small attachments that can subtly lead one away from God.


Discerning Hearts Discussion Questions

  1. Union with God as Life’s Purpose – How does recognizing our purpose as union with God shape the way you approach daily decisions and relationships?
  2. Spiritual Companionship – Who are the spiritual companions or guides in your life, and how do they help you stay grounded in your faith journey?
  3. Humility and Self-Awareness – In what ways do you cultivate humility and self-awareness in your spiritual practices, and how do these virtues protect you against temptation?
  4. Role of Spiritual Direction – How do you discern the right spiritual guide, and how open are you to letting the Holy Spirit work through that relationship?
  5. Daily Examination of Conscience – What role does examining your day play in your spiritual life, and how does it help you grow closer to God?
  6. Detachment from Worldly Comforts – Are there small attachments in your life that might be subtly distancing you from God, and how can you work towards releasing them?
  7. Understanding Stages of Spiritual Growth – How well do you recognize the transitions between spiritual stages in your own life, and what resources do you use to navigate them?
  8. Sustaining Faith During Spiritual Dryness – How do you maintain faith and commitment to God during periods of spiritual dryness or desolation?

You can find the book here.

An excerpt from the book:

Have you ever considered that the devil is active in your prayer life? In the parish church where you attend Mass? In the lives and actions of people of goodwill all around you? The saints remind us of a key aspect of living the spiritual life that we are wont to forget simply because we can’t see it and because we have been conditioned by the media and popular culture to think the devil works visibly only in “bad” people or in extraordinary ways, as in the movies. And although demons are certainly capable of extravagant or extraordinary manifestations, their ordinary work flies under our radar because it just isn’t that spectacular, though it is deadly.

In fact, subtlety, illusion, and deceit are their preferred methods of attack. An invisible battle for souls is being waged in and around us without reprieve, and we remain ignorant of it to our peril. St. Teresa of Avila, great mystic and Doctor of the Church, is best known for her writings on the way God leads souls along the path to union with Him through prayer. What many do not know about St. Teresa is that she also observed the actions of demons working with militant force to lead even good souls astray in ways that might surprise you. She shares these experiences freely in her autobiography, which she was commanded to write under obedience to her spiritual director.

Burke, Dan; Burke, Dan. The Devil in the Castle: St. Teresa of Avila, Spiritual Warfare, and the Progress of the Soul (p. 12). Sophia Institute Press. Kindle Edition.


For more episodes in this series visit Dan Burke’s Discerning Hearts page here:


Dan Burke is the founder and President of the Avila Institute for Spiritual Formation, which offers graduate and personal enrichment studies in spiritual theology to priests, deacons, religious, and laity in 72 countries and prepares men for seminary in 14 dioceses.

Dan is the author and editor of more than 15 books on authentic Catholic spirituality and hosts the Divine Intimacy Radio show with his wife, Stephanie, which is broadcast weekly on EWTN Radio. Past episodes can be found, along with thousands of articles on the interior life, at SpiritualDirection.com.

In his deep commitment to the advancement of faithful Catholic spirituality, he is also the founder of Apostoli Viae, a world-wide, private association of the faithful dedicated to living and advancing the authentic spiritual patrimony of the Church.

Most importantly, Dan is a blessed husband, father of four, grandfather of one—and grateful to be Catholic.